An Exchange With Daniel Pinner


Dear readers, as most of you know, “Vienna Mike” does not really exist. Vienna Mike is a character invented by the author of this blog for the purposes of advocating a specific set of positions. Speaking through the mask of Vienna Mike frees the reader from getting caught up in the true identity of the author, the author’s true location, life history and other irrelevant factors. It permits the reader to instead focus on what is important, namely the ideas and ideology being advocated by Vienna Mike. The mask of Vienna Mike also frees the author to undertake future actions which would be impossible were he to express the views of Vienna Mike as his own. In addition, it frees the author in other ways. Vienna Mike is not the author’s true face. Rather, Vienna Mike is, in many ways, the Mask of Command that the author once donned every morning with his officer’s uniform, to take off in relief only before select members of his family and a single closest friend.

As many of you also know, Vienna Mike actually appeared not on this blog but as a frequent and vitriolic talkbacker on Tzvi Fishman’s blog on Arutz Sheva. While most of the exchanges on that blog are not worth repeating or even preserving, there is the occasional time when an exchange occurs that has serious educational value. This particular exchange I believe to have sufficient value to actually preserve on this blog. It addresses much that is wrong with today’s Kahanist movement and, as such, its arguments may be of value to others. Therefore, I will do something that I almost never do and post a talkback exchange from elsewhere on my own blog.

Without further ado:

Something missing here, which might be especially relevant for Mike:

Tzvi, you say that the wise son ‘seeks to learn’ by ‘reading the writings of Rabbi Avraham Yitzhak HaCohen Kook, by studying books like “The Kuzari,” “Am HaBanim Semicha,” the writings of Rav Tzvi Yehuda Kook, and by listening to Torah lectures on websites like Yeshivat Beit El and Machon Meir’.

Glaringly missing from your list is Orr ha-Ra’ayon (“The Jewish Idea”) by Rabbi Meir Kahane (Hy”d), and the Haggadah of the Jewish Idea with commentary by his son Rabbi Binyamin Ze’ev (Hy”d). Both of these have been translated into English, and are thus accessible to Jews who live in the USA.

(I would also recommend Rabbi Meir Kahane’s commentary on the Tanach, “Peirush ha-Maccabee”, but as this has not been translated it is maybe less relevant to the Jews of Galut.)

Rabbi Meir Kahane (Hy”d), throughout his life and teachings, was vehemently opposed to EVER raising a hand against a fellow-Jew. He would NEVER have countenanced, much less advocated, civil war or armed insurrection in Israel.

He was fully aware of the sins of the State of Israel – indeed, he wrote about them and experienced them more directly than perhaps any other Jew. And still, he was unequivocal in forbidding any of his followers, under any circumstances, from using violence against Jewish agents of the State of Israel.

This is one of the central messages of “Kahanism”, which is one of the aspects that set Rabbi Meir Kahane (Hy”d) apart from evil people such as Rabin (y”sh) and Peres who glorify/glorified in murdering Jews, or misguided Jews who sincerely seek Israel’s benefit such as Avigdor Lieberman who has countenanced violence against fellow-Jews under certain circumstances.

Daniel Pinner, Kfar Tapuach (01/04/09)


For once, I will break character and speak not as “Vienna Mike” but as myself. I have great respect for you, Daniel, but I am afraid you have lost the forest for the trees.

First of all, the Martyr Rebbe did not write “Or HaRayon”. That book was ghostwritten after his martyrdom from notes he left behind. When you read the book and compare it to the Martyr Rebbe’s writings, it is obvious immediately that it represents a collection of thoughts written decades apart and later fitted together and polished by well-intentioned persons who should have known better. That book does not reflect the evolution of the Martyr Rebbe’s ideology nor his final thoughts on the matter of Medinat Israel. The book that DOES reflect these things is the last book the Martyr Rebbe actually wrote — “Revolution or Referendum”. In that book, the Martyr Rebbe explicitly warns that if the Israeli elite continues to oppress and humiliate the Jews, if it continues to close the doors to peaceful solutions, violence will be the inevitable and ultimate answer to oppression. That book became the Martyr Rebbe’s death warrant. The act of publishing it was the most heroic deed of his life. He knew that he would be killed for publishing it, yet he did so anyway. I suggest you read it carefully.

The reason the Martyr Rebbe did not use violence against the Israelis is that, be they erev rav or not, violence against halachically Jewish persons is the LAST resort. While the Martyr Rebbe was still alive, there were yet possibilities for a peaceful solution within the framework of Medinat Israel. With the murder of R. Meir Kahane (z”l), the Israelis closed the door on the possibility of such a solution.

When the Martyr Rebbe’s illustrious son was alive, there was yet a slim chance of peaceful partition between Medinat Israel and Medinat Yehudah. In the last days of his life, R. Binyamin Kahane (z”l) was attempting to lay the groundwork for a peaceful eviction of the IDF from Yosh, leading to Jewish autonomy in Yosh and eventual peaceful secession by the mitnakhalim. With the murder of R. Binyamin Kahane (z”l) the Israelis closed the door on this last peaceful solution.

Today, there are no peaceful solutions. There are only bloody solutions, bloodier solutions and bloodiest solutions. Armed struggle for partition is, in the final analysis, the least bloody of available options.

Do you know why Kahanism never amounted to anything following the murder of R. Binyamin Kahane (z”l)? It is because the leaders of the movement squabbled among themselves over the Rav’s legacy instead of continuing the evolution of his thought to its logical conclusions. For 20 years, Daniel, you have shouted the same slogans. But the world has changed in 20 years. Your slogans no longer correspond to reality, yet you refuse to evolve new ones. This is why Avigdor Lieberman is no longer a Kahanist, and neither is the man who writes these words.

Consider this carefully, Daniel. If one side murders in ever-increasing numbers, directly and by proxy, while the other side waves orange ribbons, the side that murders will eventually exterminate the ribbon-wavers. If the Maccabees had your attitude, there would be no Jews today, because the Hellenists would have won. Isn’t it time you stopped blindly shouting obsolete slogans and tuned on your brain? Yamit was not Amona and Begin was not Olmert and Sadat was not Ismail Haniyyeh. Do you truly believe that the Martyr Rebbe’s position today would be the same as it was 30 years ago?

The man behind the mask, undisclosed location (02/04/09)

Judaism is not, and never has been, about surrendering all morality and intellectual thought to the rabbis (or to a specific rabbi). But having said that, the Talmud admonishes: “Make yourself a rabbi” (Pirkei Avot, 1:6, 1:16). This is not to say that the Jew does not think for himself; it implies relying on the guidance of people who are wiser, more learned, more experienced in life, etc.

Rabbi Meir Kahane (Hy”d) commented on the verse, “You will not stray from what they [the Torah authorities of any given generation] will tell you, left or right” (Deuteronomy 17:11): “…Even if a judge [in a Torah court] erred and gave a mistaken decision, we are obligated to listen to him, NOT BECAUSE THE VERDICT HE GAVE IS CORRECT – because after all the Torah states here explicitly that it is possible that he makes a mistake, but we are nevertheless commanded to obey – not for the sake of the truth of this specific judgement, but in order that there will not be an abundance of arguments among Jews… And without doubt, anyone who knows that the Possek [Halachic decision-maker] has erred, is obligated both to listen to him and also to challenge him ceaselessly afterwards with proofs to the contrary. And similarly, the Possek is obligated to listen to his words and to consider them carefully, and to learn from previous mistakes” (Peirush ha-Maccabee, Deuteronomy p. 68-69, emphasis in the original).

Now, of course anyone can disagree with Rabbi Meir Kahane (Hy”d). He himself was not a Chassidic type, for whom “the Rebbe” (whichever Rebbe nay be) was infallible. But anyone who disregards the most fundamental teachings of Rav Kahane should not claim to speak in his name.

I am intrigued by you claim, “Mike”, that ‘the Martyr Rebbe did not write “Or HaRayon”. That book was ghostwritten after his martyrdom from notes he left behind’. A lot of Or HaRayon is in the Rav’s own handwriting, and a lot of it was already in his computer when he was murdered. There was some minor editing done, and the precise order of the chapters was unclear, but it is most definitely the Rav’s own work.

And his book “Revolution or Referendum” was a desperate attempt at PREVENTING a revolution. The Rav certainly did not advocate a revolution – he was warning against it, almost pleading with his beloved people not to take up arms against one another.

There’s much more to say, but it’s 1:25 in the morning here, I’m after a hard day’s work, and I have to get up in less than 7 hours, so I’m going to leave the rest for a later talk-back.


Once again I will break character and not speak as “Vienna Mike”.

My home is full of my work, Daniel. There are notebooks filled with my handwriting, files on my computer, sheets of printout and random pieces of paper covered with hastily-penciled notes. There are short stories, parables, character sketches, political writings, sketches of military doctrine, technical notes, even a half-finished novel. After I am killed, it is possible for some well-intentioned person, perhaps my dear wife or my child, to take the political items from among these many disparate writings, collect them into a single volume and publish them as my “magnum opus”. Such persons would be able to say that the writings were in my desk, written in my handwriting. They would be able to say that they opened files on my computer and found my writings. They would be able to say that, with a few minor edits, these writings were fitted together into a coherent whole.

But the resultant volume would not be my work. It would be their ghost-written idea of what my work should have been. For the writings they would collect represent not my current thoughts and ideology, but a series of snapshots frozen in time, each a spiritual photograph of the man who wrote them, a man who ceased to exist days or weeks or months or even years later, when new information caused a change in my thinking.

Some of my writings would say that Yigal Amir is a madman who should be executed and that the day Yitzhak Rabin(y”sh) was assassinated should forever be observed as a day of mourning, the day when one Jew turned upon another and brought disaster upon the entire nation. Yet now I believe that Yigal Amir is our greatest living hero. Now I believe that, one day, on the anniversary of his heroic deed, young people will gather in Kirkar Amir and, standing before the memorial plaque decorating the very spot where the blood of the monstrous rodef Rabin(y”sh) was spilled by the selfless hero, will read from Pinchas and Ki Tisa, recount Yigal Amir’s heroic deed and swear with resounding voices to go through the camp of Bnei Israel with eternal vigilance and slay without mercy any who advocate peace with Islam, even if they be their brother or father or sister or mother. I believe that one day, half-Hallel will be said on the 12th of Chesvan to commemorate Yigal Amir’s deed and that the Jewish State will institute an Itur Yigal Amir, the civilian equivalent of the military Itur Giborei Yehudah, to decorate civilians who selflessly risk their lives and freedom on behalf of the Jewish People.

Some of my writings would say that Medinat Israel is the first flower of redemption, the holy Jewish State to which every Jew in the world owes unconditional and unquestioning loyalty. Now I believe that Medinat Israel is to the flower of redemption what manure is to the seed of a tree – a filthy, smelly, unclean fertilizer that must be buried and composted so that the seed planted in it may consume it for nourishment until it is all gone. I believe that, one day, the armed forces of the word’s foremost superpower, Medinat Yehudah, whose borders stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates and from the Gulf of Aden to the Black Sea, will march unopposed into the tiny city-state, Medinat Israel, whose boundary was once set by treaty at the outer limit of 58-th century Tel Aviv, and, to the cheers of the assembled populace, proclaim that the era of Medinat Israel is at an end.

Some of my writings would say that Jews have no right to take up arms against other Jews. Now I believe that a refusal to take up arms against Medinat Israel in a struggle to liberate Medinat Yehudah is tantamount to acquiescence in a Second Holocaust.

The point, Daniel, is that no one has the right to take another man’s unpublished work after his death, compile it into a volume and present this volume as the sum total of that man’s ideology. “Or HaRayon” is not a book written by Rav Meir Kahane(z”l), it is a book ghost-written by others who have usurped his name with the best of intentions, yet are thereby achieving the worst of results.

This brings me to your willful ignorance regarding the current circumstances and your consequent misreading of “Revolution or Referendum”.

It is true that we are required to show great respect for a Beit Din, a Rav, a ruler and a posek. But there are, even as the Martyr Rebbe himself pointed out on many an occasion, distinct limits to such respect. It is true that, for the sake of peace among brothers, we follow even erroneous or questionable decisions of poskim and batei din. But we do so only as long as the issue in question is of relatively small importance and only as long as long as nothing we do thereby goes expressly against the Holy Torah.

We refrain from kitniyot on Pesach and wave chickens over our heads before Yom Kippur. But we do not follow a posek who tells us to sacrifice our children to Molech, or a Beit Din that tells us to commemorate a chag by eating chazor, or a secular ruler who commands us to worship idols. If necessary, we refuse them. If others follow their decisions, we call upon them to turn away from their error. And if they seek to impose their will upon us by force, we take up arms against them and their supporters. The Sages commanded us to light candles for eight days in Kislev so that we never forget that, on extremely rare occasion, there comes a terrible day and a dark time when Jew must take up arms against Jew in defense of Jewish life, the honor of Hashem and the Holy Torah.

We may acquiesce in an Israeli State that chooses to make legal decisions based upon British and Ottoman laws instead of Halacha. We may grit our teeth and tolerate an Israeli State that permits the selling of chametz on Pesach. We may even, for the sake of peace and for the sake of peace alone, stop short of taking up arms against an Israeli State that bars us from Har HaBayit. But when the Israeli State seeks to surrender huge sections of Hashem’s Holy Land to Hamas, when it sends its police and soldiers to beat Jewish children and throw Jewish babies out of windows, when it murders our rabbis and openly plots with the Moslems in order to bring about our extermination, we have no choice but to take up arms in defense of our lives, the honor of Hashem and the Holy Torah.

The Martyr Rebbe does not, in “Revolution or Referendum”, plead with the Jewish People not to take up arms against the Israeli State in a bloody and merciless revolution. Rather, he pleads desperately with the Israeli elite not to repeat the error of Nicholas II, not to drive the Jewish People to the last resort of spilling the blood of other Jews, even heretics, murderers and erev rav. Yet, to paraphrase Trotsky’s remark upon skimming the captured diaries of Nicholas II, those whom Hashem would destroy, He first makes insensible. The entire life and death of the Martyr Rebbe, and especially his last book, fulfill the words of the prophet Yirmiyahu: “You will tell them all these things but they will not listen. You will call to them, but they will not answer you.” Now it is up to us to establish a Jewish State and reset the forty-year clock spoken of by the Martyr Rebbe, lest the rest of Yirmiyahu’s terrible prophecy again come to pass.

We have no choice anymore, Daniel. They murdered Rav Kahane (z”l) and we did nothing. They murdered his son and we did nothing. They destroyed Gush Katif and we did nothing. They beat and sexually assaulted our preteen daughters at Amona and we did nothing. How long will we continue to do nothing? How many children have to die? How many girls have to be raped? What will it take for you to wake up?

You and Tzvi Fishman and David HaIvri and Baruch Marzel and many others make the classic mistake of the tzaddik. You think too highly of our people. Because you yourselves are kind, gentle men full of chesed and yirat Shamayim and ahavat Yisrael, you assume that all Jews, even the worst heretics and sinners, are deep down also kind, gentle men full of chesed and yirat Shamayim and ahavat Yisrael. But it is not true. There is evil in the world, Daniel. There is evil among Bnei Israel as there is evil among all other nations. There are monsters who would murder in cold blood. There are bloody-handed demons who would plot even with the servants of Satan himself to slaughter those whom they perceive as a threat to their usurped power. There are those who would do anything for money and there are those who would do anything for envy and there are those who would do anything out of sheer spite, as little boys who pull wings off flies just to watch the bewildered insects run around in pain and panic, leaping into the air again and again, trying to fly away on wings that are no longer there. There are in this world those, even among Jews, who would make a covenant with Darkness for a fistful of blood-spattered gold, who would murder their own souls to gain a fleeting hold on temporal power.

We live today in a time of prophecy. We stand again at Sinai and at Modiin. The servants of pure Evil are arrayed against us. We are asked again to make a choice. Do we take up the sword against these soulless zombies? Do we confront the erev rav who would send jackbooted thugs to beat and rape Jewish children, desecrate shuls and bulldoze Jewish homes? Do we stop the servants of the Yetzer HaRa’a who would send precursors for rocket fuel and explosives to Hamas, who would feed and clothe and aid Amalek, supplying him even with electricity and free medical care? Do we prevent the destruction of a dream our forefathers lived and died to carry in their hearts through two thousand years of pogroms, ghettos, inquisitions and dhimmitude? Or do we stand idly by and permit a Second Holocaust? Did we mean it when we pumped our fists in the air all those many years ago, shouting “Never Again!”? Or were those just empty words said to make us feel better?

There are those whose eyes have begun to open. There are those who have rejected the Israeli State, hoisted black and orange flags on the Fifth of Iyar and petitioned tearfully for Hashem to save them from the g-dless travesty they once called “the first flower of our redemption”. But it is not enough to turn away from evil. It is not enough to plead for the favor of Hashem. We must also DO GOOD. We must build a Jewish State. We must demand Medinat Yehudah. We must demand it with words and with symbols and, if necessary, with rocks and with bullets and, yea, even with suicide bombings and homemade poison gas. Ein lanu brerah.

Read “Revolution and Referendum” again, Daniel, and think carefully. In this time, every man must choose a side. Soon there will be no neutrals. Whose side are you on?


7 Responses to “An Exchange With Daniel Pinner”

  1. Vienna Mike Says:

    Here is part of a message from a person in Israeli-occupied Medinat Yehudah, whose identity will remain undisclosed for his protection:

    “…David HaIvri is not to be trusted.

    Whatever you think of Daniel, Yekutiel, Baruch M., Baruch Ben Yosef, Itamar, HaIvri is no longer in the loop, and hasn’t been for a while.
    The man he works for, Gershon Mesika seems to be a good guy, though….”

    The question of “trust” here is misstated. In serious resistance operations, whether Marighella cell or classical underground cell structure, NO ONE is to be trusted until and unless they are vetted and cleared, and even then, they are to be told only what they need to know and only when they need to know it. Not one of the men mentioned here, and the others mentioned by you, can be trusted beyond the limits of openly disclosed information. If information on, let’s say, a public demonstration, is being disseminated, they should be told what any member of the general public would be told, and nothing more. The undercover action(s) and activist plans being carried out under the cover of this public event should remain strictly limited to the resistance members tasked with carrying out the actions involved and only insofar as to prevent them from interfering with one another.

    The reason for this is that not one of these men is vettable. They are all under such intense surveillance that they cannot relieve themselves without the Shabak measuring their urine output. HaIvri is almost certainly an active Shabak informant.

    Whether someone is a “good guy” or a “bad guy” is irrelevant. Whether they are decent men or not is irrelevant. HaIvri, for example, is a basically decent man. That, in fact, is his weakness. He can be controlled by invoking his love of family and his love of country. This is true of most “decent men”. Threaten their wife, or their daughter, or their mother or their lover, and they will betray anyone and everyone to save this person.

    Similarly, the children of such persons should not be easily vetted. A daughter who resolves to reject the authority of the occupier one moment and knuckles under the same authority the next moment, because her daddy yelled at her to do so, is not a person who can be trusted to keep secrets from her parents or her “best friends”. Young women in general are a difficult proposition insofar as trust is concerned, because they have the nasty tendency to fall in love with handsome young men in dashing uniforms. They then spill their guts to such men in order to protect them from resistance actions, thereby killing everyone they associate with. Young men have a similar problem, but only if they are insecure braggarts who like to talk in bed. These are more easily filtered out.

    How do classic resistance organizations vet and clear personnel? Vetting is done by using background investigation, prolonged surveillance and common sense, followed by a series of ever more dangerous and trustworthy tasks. The prospective recruit progresses from sympathizer, to helper, to associate, to associate member, to probationary member and, finally, to full member. This process takes many months or better yet years. All through the process, they are carefully watched for potential disloyalty, their limits are carefully noted and they are classed accordingly.

    Every man can be broken by the enemy, it is just a matter of finding the right handle. If the resistance accurately estimates what this handle is, the resistance knows how easily this person will be broken in the event of capture. Therefore, the resistance knows how much information this person is permitted to possess. If a man is under intense enemy surveillance or if he is a member of the old dead wood generation that still believes that Medinat Israel is their country despite Amona and Gush Katif, such a process never even starts.

    Final clearance from associate to probationary member is completed by causing the recruit to perform an act of no return. Typically, such an act involves the verifiable killing of a member of the regime’s security forces, a known regime informant or other such legitimate target. Given the capabilities of modern special effects departments, proof of completion involves either direct witness by prior cleared resistance members or physical delivery of an irreplaceable, positively identifiable body part (e.g. head). Once the act of no return is performed, the recruit is fairly likely to be loyal. Nonetheless, probationary members are watched for prolonged periods of time.

    Once things progress to the point where there are open units or open political parties operating on behalf of the resistance, the process of vetting is loosened in order to fill the ranks of these organizations. However, the members of such organizations are not apprised of the identity and nature of the original underground core of the resistance.

    Marighella cells have it easier because 90% of the time they are composed of a tiny number of close friends and relatives who do not seek to expand cell membership. If a Marighella cell does get into the business of setting up daughter cells or even a classic resistance organization, they tend to adopt the classic process.

    Those who fight the War of Symbols openly, on the other hand, can benefit from swaying persons such as Daniel Pinner to the cause of Medinat Yehudah. The man is himself a walking symbol, whether he likes it or not. The same is true of many others you mention. Consider, for example, the value of Nadia Matar standing up and openly proclaiming that no Jew should serve in the IDF and that Medinat Yehudah must be given independence forthwith, lest blood be spilled between brothers. No one in his right mind would trust Nadia Matar as a resistance operative, but as a leader in the open War of Symbols, she would be invaluable. Consider also, for example, the value of Avigdor Liberman openly proclaiming that it would be better to give Yosh to the Mediant Yehudah movement rather than have a civil war. Liberman could never even consider being a member of the Mediant Yehudah movement himself, whether openly or covertly. Half of his constituents would never wish to live in Medinat Yehudah. But the vast majority of them would support establishing Medinat Yehudah as an alternative to Islamic Palestine.

    The key lesson here is: from each according to his utility, to each according to his use. This is the way of national self-liberation.

  2. sk Says:

    Fascinating stuff, Mike.

  3. Vienna Mike Says:

    Here’s another message from one of our talkbackers living under Israeli occupation (seriously, folks, get anonymous proxies and fake email addresses, please):

    Well stated, although I believe you’re being to nice to HaIvri. On the other hand, that’s probably irrelevant, like you suggested.

    Nadia has been becoming a bit more independent, realizes the dangers of “state loyalist” (mamlachti) rabbis and education, and is not as thrilled – so I have heard – as here mother in law Ruth with their Christian “alliance.”

    She’s grown a lot since this, where she is influenced by the local mamlachti residents to retreat:

    First she makes it clear that no one should attack the soldiers. Their only “strategy” is to call upon the soldiers to refuse orders, and to do so with love.

    At the meeting, Nadia says that anyone at the meeting who doesn’t listen is a provocateur.

    The reality is that the man standing next to her, and the man escorting others around at the beginning are, or just seriously misguided.

    Some have claimed that this video was simply put together to discredit her. Maybe so, but she has come around, at least a bit.

    Unfortunately, there is a very disturbing trend of “right wingers” forming alliances with Christians. These include WIG, the World Likud Party – -, Rabbi Shlomo Riskin – who is just an imbecile – and in, yet undetermined ways,

    These Eruv Rav seeks to join Esau with Yishmael, like Shimon Peres and Yossi Beilin. We must separate from both, and stand independently. The “right” is just playing into their hands by reaching out to Christians to counter the “left’s” fondness for the Arabs.
    We’re in bigger trouble than anyone wants to admit.

    Vienna Mike replies:

    There is a vast difference between “friend” and “ally”. I have no problems with Christian ALLIES. It’s the delusion that we can have Christian FRIENDS that is dangerous. I suggest that you carefully review the post about the Artsakh Liberation War. Also, please be careful with the term “Erev Rav”. This is a very serious term to throw around and it must not be devalued through misuse. The vast majority even of IDF soldiers are not Erev Rav. They are just insane lunatics who take orders from Erev Rav. I have no problems with them as individuals. I just want them out of my country. They can go play their lunatic games in Tel Aviv and leave the Jews of Medinat Yehudah alone. Here I suggest that you review my post about Abkhazia.

    As for the Nadia Matar video, there are two points to be made.

    First, note the healthy attitude of the youth. The teenagers, not the adults in this video, are the future. The job of the adults of our generation is to work with the teenagers to turn them into an organized resistance movement by teaching them discipline, doctrine, necessary skills and a coherent ideology. Where the youth lead, the rest will eventually be forced to follow, if only because the Israelis will unleash such oppression that the older generation will have no choice but to fight back.

    Second, note that by the time the video is taken, fighting back is essentially not an option. As a guerilla, one does not fight back by fighting a heroic last stand. One fights back by intelligent planning, always seeking to preserve one’s forces and never fighting a battle one cannot win. For example, one can fight by staging a riot, throwing some rocks and running away. While the enemy deals with the riot by drawing up in nice tight formations, he can be engaged by indirect fire or hidden snipers who fire a few shots and displace. He can also be lured into an unmarked minefield or IED field by a taunting crowd of rock-throwing kids. None of the kids need to know there is a minefield. All they need to know is that they are to stay behind some terrain feature, e.g. a road, and to run away on command or when the enemy gets within a certain distance. These orders can be relayed anonymously to youth leaders without exposing resistance operatives.

    When the line of policemen marches into the kill zone with their plastic shields and clubs, one might detonate the IEDs, showering the police with lethal shrapnel. While the police are writhing on the ground, one could arm the mines and motion-sensitive IEDs, killing numerous enemy first responders as these try to reach their wounded and dying comrades. While all of this chaos is going on, the guerilla operatives, of whom there might be only two or three, quietly walk away. An associate member is tasked with anonymously posting a claim of responsibility online.

    Imagine, for a moment, the impact of such an action. With dozens of dead and wounded kapos, hours of bloody chaos, EOD robots, folks in bomb suits, wailing ambulances and gore galore, the press would have a field day. They would play the resistance claims and demands interspersed with bloody footage for days on end. Not a child would be left who does not know the grievances and demands of the resistance. And the next time the police think about attacking a crowd of rock-throwing kids or expelling people from their homes, they will think twice and thrice.

    Thus Vienna Mike would say to you that Beit HaShalom would not have been defended by a Jewish Resistance. Rather, the resistance would have brought Beit HaShalom down upon the heads of the kapos storming it. And afterwards, the resistance would have turned Tel Aviv into a sweltering hell without electricity or running water and with explosions and drive-by shootings every 15 minutes in Ramat Aviv, Neve Tzedek, Sheinkin and every other “nice” neighborhood.

  4. inquirer Says:

    Supposing that MY survives and becomes independent, I think it very likely that the Israeli state will give away to MY the Galilee and Negev.

    What would MY do in such a scenario? They would have to face Arab armies on three fronts (Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian). At any rate, this will eventually have to happen. You advocate here, a MY stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates. I understand how MY could possibly defend against an assault by the Jordanian army in Yosh, but how will it defend against three in the Negev and Galilee?

    And I don’t see how it could conquer the Sinai, Syria or Lebanon. Is it possible?

  5. Vienna Mike Says:

    How will it happen, inquirer? One battle at a time. By the standards of the effete West, Medinat Yehudah will be a garrison state with a population of religious fanatics.

    There is no doubt in my mind that, at least for the first century after independence, the government of Medinat Yehudah will spend the vast majority of its revenue on the armed forces. Military expenditures are likely to exceed 30% of GDP. The standard of living will be sacrificed completely to the interest of national security. No Citizen will starve or go hungry, because a Jewish government cannot permit such a travesty. Between soil rehabilitation, construction of defense infrastructure and the arms industry, there will be plenty of places for both workfare recipients and government employees. But the idea that the Jewish State will be able to afford the luxurious standard of living enjoyed by the Europeans, much less the conspicuous consumption of America, is ludicrous. Judah will be an international pariah, a rogue state with a mobilizational wartime economy. Only the iron will that is engendered by total faith will enable it to survive and thrive in the hostile goyshe world.

    The average citizen of Judah will eat a small piece of meat only once a week, on Shabbos. He will consider a personal automobile to be an impossible luxury. He will have only three sets of clothing — his daily clothes, his Shabbos clothes and his battle dress uniform. His home will be as spartan as his wardrobe. Most of what he eats he will grow in his own garden. Most of what he earns he will invest in government war bonds. He will serve six years on active duty and three months every year in the reserves. And he will consider all this to be normal because he will see that it is necessary. Moreover, he will reject with contempt the luxuries of their effete Israelis in their Tel Aviv cesspool, because he will know that only his strength keeps them alive. His faith will sustain him amid the grinding poverty, danger, hardship and endless war the same way faith sustained his ancestors in the ghettos of Europe. Faith will sustain him the way it sustains the Haredim today amid the grinding poverty and destitution of their self-made ghettos.

    As for your operative question, consider that Israel will know full well that its survival depends on Judah’s victory. Beside’s Judah’s own embargo-busting efforts, there will be substantial covert aid from both Medinat Israel and the Evangelical Christians of America, not to mention some of the Jewish Diaspora. Judah will, believe me, build the best man-for-man army in the world because it will have no choice but to do so.

    Judah will also enjoy a huge population growth. In contrast to the average Israeli woman, who has, at best, one child a dog and a “rewarding career”, the average Jewish woman today has a family with six to eight children. Judah will have every incentive to raise this number by means of propaganda, land grants, free medical care for Citizens and financial aid to Citizen parents. I expect that the fertility rate of Medinat Yehudah will approach 12 within the first few decades of independence and will ultimately level off at around 10.

    To this you must add the full effects of partition. It is certain that the armed struggle accompanying partition will so polarize the society within Medinat Israel that a substantial proportion of the dati leumi in Israel will move to Judah. The Israeli elite will do everything it can to facilitate this.

    When Israel hands the Negev, the Golan and the Galilee to Judah, it will not be handing these to the half-million unprepared “settlers” in Yosh, but to a fully mobilized garrison state with a well trained army, military economy and a youth-heavy population of two or three million. When you think of Judah immediately after independence, do not think of today’s Yosh. Think of 1967 Israel on steroids.

  6. inquirer Says:

    But how would Judah acquire and be able to logistically supply and sustain tanks, aircraft, missiles and other advanced weapon systems?

    While you’ve explained very well how a guerilla force of excellent light infantry can successfully defend Medinat Yehudah, can such a force fight offensively against modern Arab or, in the case of invasion, even European armies? As in: conquer the Jordanian army while expelling millions of Arabs from Judah, let alone fight the Egyptian army out in the Negev or Sinai.

    Also, having been to Israel, I’ve noticed how the younger generation of dati are more and more creating a Jewish identity outside the concept of the Israeli state. And, having seen the much overblown supposed “professionalism” and “competence” of the IDF, I doubt that they would be able to stand up to determined resistance.

  7. Vienna Mike Says:

    As the horrible death of Tamil Elam shows, inquirer, it is not enough to build a force of crack light infantry and liberate your land. You must afterward build the infrastructure of a viable State. Nigh on thirty years after independence, Tamil Elam could not even supply tiger-striped fatigues to the rear echelons of its armed forces, much less proper weaponry. A conventional army cannot fight helicopter gunships with AK-47s and win.

    The struggle to liberate Medinat Yehudah will be the most technically difficult national liberation struggle in history precisely because of this fact. Judah must walk a tightrope. If the Israelis pull out before defense industries and a viable economy are built, Judah will be destroyed at her birth. If the Israelis pull out precipitously, there will be no time to acquire the heavy weapon systems needed, nor time to train the pilots and the gunners and the commanders in their use. Judah must not simply liberate herself, but do so in a carefully managed PROCESS. Israel needs Judah to survive. But the ugly truth is, now and for the foreseeable future, Judah needs Israel.

    The first goal must not be independence but AUTONOMY. Then there must be a long period of negotiations and foot-dragging during which Judah builds her industries and economy and quietly acquires the weapons she will need until she can build her own. Only when there is an army and an air force and a defense industry able to supply both with spare parts if not complete weapons systems, only after the fortresses of Judah are full of war materiel and strategic raw materials can there be a full Israeli withdrawal.

    What this boils down to is splitting the Israeli elite. There are enough of them with brains to understand that Judah is their only hope of survival. The problem today is that the giggle factor kills the idea — no one really believes it is possible to build a viable Medinat Yehudah because there is no movement that is serious and willing to kill and die to make it possible. Once the giggle factor is gone, once there is a self-identifying Jewish People separate from the Israelis and a Jewish Hamas to represent the national aspirations of the Jewish People, there will be a new Peace Process.

    Much depends on Judah’s leaders. They must simultaneously fight the Israelis yet cooperate with them, terrify the Israelis yet win them over. They must maneuver Israel into arming Judah until Judah has the industries to arm herself. But ultimately, Judah will build everything she needs by herself.

    We are Jews. We have the education to build anything we might need. The State of Israel was producing its own arms before it even formally existed. Judah will do the same. Ein lanu brera. The alternative is the fate of Tamil Elam.

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